Saturday, July 20, 2013

Brash and Sin... [C1 spoilers!]

*** This post is full of spoilers if you haven't played Chapter 1. ***

I'm still not back home, but after some more work on the second chapter and an argument with my boyfriend who says Raze is completely despicable and that the players will hate him even more than they hate Brash (lol), I decided to move some things around. (Boyfriend has only read Raze's dialogs from the released module, btw.) Men!!!

I'm not changing Raze's personality, but instead, adding an alternative to the main quest of Chapter 2, the old version of which involves the abominable, corrupt, perverted cultists whom not all players will find so adorable. (I need to consult with Good aligned people more often before developing...) As for Raze, I will *consider* implementing PC options to send him to hell every once in a while, after which he wouldn't feel so inclined to talk to the girl again. Maybe.

Anyway, I have a big announcement to make... Sinallion the bard will make an appearance in Chapter 2!
Behold his booties!

Could it be possible for the heroine to finally meet a nice man, for a change? It remains to be seen, but if she does, I guess the bandits and farmers (the most popular "romance" option!) will have to try even harder...

I think developing Chapter 2 will be a lot more fun for me now. I have to change things once in a while, or come up with something new to keep me going.

Now, as you may know, I have been meditating on the saved variables from Chapter1.

I want to give the player a choice when it comes to keeping or killing any companion, but I decided to make the available choices correspond to the player's previous behavior. Except you should be able to stab any companion for no reason at all, but not at any time (some railroading has to be there). And by the way, the demonspawn will be stuck with you for a while... take it or leave it.

Only one character has had enough time with the demonheart girl in Chapter 1 to have the relationship tracked reliably. The most important decisions about Arana and Raze relationships have yet to happen.

**** Brash spoilers!!! ****
Since I listed him as one of the main "romances" and everyone expects to see him again, I suppose it's not a huge spoiler to say they will meet again, though it's not certain when.

I decided that if you treated him like trash (in his opinion!) he won't blindly fight all the other characters for your attention, and might want to fight you, instead... violently. I have a set of different possible outcomes planned. Some of you might be surprised with Brash's reaction to your character.

In addition to the characters sent to me, I playtested the relationship with 2 very different characters who were not all over him, but who I imagined liked him a lot. (I played both of them in ways that I knew wouldn't irritate Brash, though!) I don't want any of the demonheart girls who really liked him to fail the relationship check, but I want a different outcome if she hated the guy. Avoiding to talk to him counts as being disinterested, btw, since the conversations are where you get the relationship points.
******** /Brash spoilers ********


  1. Hope you're having fun on your holiday! (Arguments with the bf aside ;) ) Based on the release I'd bet he's probably wrong, though I know never to take things for granted with your modules :D

    It all sounds interesting and I'm looking forward to Sin and the farmers, bandits and sailors and randomly stabbing people :)

    P.S. Can my character get Sin's shoes as well? Swanky!

    1. She can't get him out of his shoes yet, he didn't bring another pair for himself, lol.
      He should be upset if she calls him Sin, which should be an option in game... While developing and writing down ideas, I often shorten everybody's names to 3 characters, so this guy is sin and Brash is a bra...

    2. That explains his breast obsession then! ;)

      I'm afraid Sin's stuck with it now, but 50% of my characters mean it in a teasing friendly way :p

  2. As a guy who generally plays good characters in RPG's I must say I found Raze to be interesting.I didn't hate him because he was not abusive towards my char but instead he wanted to challenge her to improve herself and her abilities.
    On the other hand I hated Brash as much as Vico from ADWR and wouldn't mind exacting my revange later in the game.

    1. Aw, I liked Vico. But I'm having fun when my characters suffer (I mean the companions, too). They can't all be happy at the same time.

    2. That's true and it would be boring if they would be, but they can't all be miserable all the time:)

      indeed Brash reminded me at times of Bishop from NWN but I never really hated Bishop 'cause he fallowed my char out of a twisted sense of duty towards Duncan.When I played with an elf\female my char even had a romance with him(Cassavir annoys me too much,though he's a good tank in the game).
      That being said I must say I enjoyed Demonheart thus far and can't wait to play the next chapter.

      PS: Have you played Planescape Torment?The plot has some similar elements to your module.

    3. I have played PS:Torment a long time ago, so I don't remember the exact plot, but remember the game generally. I think that guy is more immortal than a demonheart, and there is only one of him? It was one of the few games where I endured playing a male character when I was forced to (I play males on my second run-throughs sometimes, but only because I'm given a choice!)

      I thought Bishop just butted in with that excuse, but what he really wanted was to stick his nose in my party's business. :D You have to bring him and Casavir everywhere together, they can't stop fighting.

    4. Yeah the guy from PS Torment was just immortal not demonheart or anything like that but it was a damn good game.Usually I'm like you and don't like to play RPG's whit a pregenerated char but Torment was just amazing.
      Anyway your module kinda reminded me of PS Torment.

      As for Bishop and Cassavir I once played an half-elf warlock male with bouth of the in my party so I know what your talking about. You should have seen Cassavir's face at the end when I joined the bad guys with Bishop,Quarra and Neeshka :)

  3. I liked Brash and Raze more than any of the other characters to be honest. I've had enough of good guys to last a lifetime - BioWare never, ever gave a good evil guy romance in any of their games, so I turn to mods for that. I'd like it if Brash showed up in Chapter 2 - he was the character I enjoyed having around most, for his comments alone. He had the same reluctant-but-still-helping vibe that Bishop had in NWN2, but I'm hoping that Brash will have a better ending than Bishop did.

    If evil isn't an option, then how about a really sarcastic good guy? I'm so tired of paladins and goodie-two-shoes. It irritates me and my chaotic-but-not-evil characters.

    Love everything you've made so far Lamb, and can't wait for chapter 2. Hope you're enjoying your holiday :]

    1. BioWare and other game developers often failed to satisfy the female gamers, at least in my opinion. I mean, in BG2 males get 3 hot chicks, and females get... Anomen. Not even Haer'Dalis or Edwin... (The fanmade Edwin romance was good, but not as I imagined it. I thought Edwin would rather put something in my drink and make use of the situation. And maybe want me to be his slave even sober.)

      Then Bishop. I guess it was a huge improvement. Actually, I couldn't believe it. Females got the best romance in the game?

      I loved him, but the ending sucked. If you preferred Casavir, Bishop's reasoning was adorable ("I was willing to die for you, but you want the paladin!"), but Bishop's excuse if you liked *him* all along... "Yeah, I don't like commitment." :D WTF man! And if I wanted the paladin, you'd be willing to die for me?

      Many years ago, I may have been influenced by Bishop when creating the first (very outdated) version of Brash. What I liked most about Bishop was that you never knew where you were standing with him. He wants you when you don't want him and vice versa. It can drive the girl insane.

  4. I'm with Shaded. Brash and Raze, I thought, were fantastic characters. I didn't view either of them as necessarily 'despicable' and 'intolerable'---I viewed them as complex, with complicated personalities that might have had their share of evil in them but also had so much more. They had depth. I found things that endeared me to them as much as they might have repelled me.

    I actually thought Raze was, in a way, sort of almost adorable in a twisted way. Whenever he spoke, I always envisioned a feline preening---especially when the demonheart girl responded in less-than-impressed fashions. To me, he seemed a bit like a showboat, still unaccustomed and unfamiliar to mortals, but (for whatever personal reason) intent to prove to the demonheart girl that he was great, powerful, and impressive. And I -loved- that.

    That said, your imagination is a magical and dark wonderland, and I'm certain that no matter what you do, it'll come out amazingly. We can't say it enough, but thank you for all this hard work!

    1. Oh, and I was wondering---are you still accepting save game files? I haven't had access to my files for a while (not since before your initial call for help) but if they'd still be of service to you, I'd love to contribute.

      Anything for the cause!

    2. Files are still welcome. Send me what exactly your character thought about the others, too.

  5. For Raze, I am kinda hoping for an older-sister or mentor style relationship. This would not necessarily preclude a romance, it may just be a prelude to one after he "grows up" a bit.

    His ego just begs for teasing. He really isn't any where near as powerful as he thinks he is, and still has a lot to learn.

    Brash is an ass, but someone I can work with if necessary but don't want to be around any more then necessary.

    I guess I prefer Raze because it is obvious that emotionally he is still very much a child, and there is hope for him still. Brash not so much.

    1. Aww. I can't say anything, you'll see when Raze opens his mouth a bit more in C2.

  6. I also hope you are having/had a nice vacation!

    I try to play my character(s) as initially innocent, maybe a little intimidated by all the events surrounding her. I mean, it's not everyday one becomes an immortal, demonhearted character. ;)

    I'd also play it as someone who is a bit timid around Brash. She would normally go along with what he want, reluctantly, so as if not to piss him off. Especially since my character is not a skilled fighter. (played a bard and now working on a fighter in my next attempt the module). Maybe in another play through, I might get more pissy with him and see what he does.

    As I mentioned earlier (don't know if it was here on the Vault) that this may be a form of heresy around these parts, but...I thought Brash was even more complicated of a villain-type than Vico. Hard evil-type dude to figure out for sure. And like I said, I played my character to be extremely intimidated by him. Even after the bleeping earlier, I let him pretty much do what he character had a mixture of conflicting feelings at that point. And basically just wanted to do anything to get out of the situation.

    The beauty of this module is that all the characters contain depth. Maybe at some point I might put a dagger in the back of one of them. Though knowing my luck, they would know I am about to and try to get me first! Just a nice assortment of characters/companions throughout this mod. Can't wait to play more.

    Btw, are you still wanting to receive characters via email? I have been meaning to send you a couple of mine, but haven't had a lot of time to to back to the game lately. Just never enough time to do what I set out to do each weekend! Oh well.

    1. Yes, send me the characters and how they felt. :)

  7. I've always felt that as a writer the most important thing is to make people feel something after reading your random scrawlings. If people hate a character it's just as good as them loving them. What's important to me isn't that they like/hate them. It's that after they are done playing the game/reading the story that they linger thoughts on the characters/plot. People who rant about how much they despised something are just as good as those that ranted about how they loved something.

    If someone tells you they hate Brash or Raze... take it as a compliment.

    1. I knew from the start that not everyone was going to like them, since I know how differently people react to the characters from the official campaigns of NWN and BG. There were some people on certain forums who thought the exact opposite of what I thought.

      If people go around posting how much they hated the characters as part of the story, and not the work itself, I guess it's good.

      On the other hand, if *no one* liked these characters, then I would feel like I failed.

    2. I've always laughed at those classic 'Fanboy' rants. Those "I don't think would have . The writer is just dumb."

      Means two things to me:

      1. That person has passion about the subject matter. Whether they hated it, or loved it, they took time out of their day to think about. Some even take time out of their day to write long rants about it. That means I entertained them. Mission Accomplished.

      2. They care enough about the character, love or hate, that they empathize with them. They have put thought not only into them, but into how that character thinks and feels. So no matter what words they use they are saying, "I like this".

      In the end I feel like you should make the story that YOU want to make, and not the story everyone else wants to hear. Soon as you start doing that things go down that dark path of catering to the masses. Let the reviews and opinions of others fall where they will.

      It's because I hate Brash that I want to see him more. :)

    3. I'm with Mad Poet on this one.

    4. When someone annoys me with negative opinions (mainly boyfriend, his opinions bother me the most), I have to remind him and myself that this is my story. >.> But I still want to know what people thought.

      To be honest, having a bunch of minor characters to have sex with is not at the top of my list of priorities (I wrote such a list once, and interactions with the main characters are what's most important to me). In the early stages, sexual abuse was only supposed to happen to minor characters, and you would just pass by and learn about it (I think there will be remnants of that in the future modules, too). And there was that Jazmine bit. But then Thirdpres wrote some sexual content for the PC and the minor characters, so we have that plus a few encounters that I wrote over the last few years, so I will add that to the modules, as long as it makes sense. I guess that's some content on-demand. If I fail to deliver (deciding that I need to finish the main story faster, or I can find no way to make minor characters catch the girl and abuse her once she becomes skilled and/or strong), they get what they get... I thought ADWR had enough sexual encounters for a lifetime. -.-

  8. Hey Lamb I hope u’re having an excellent vacation!

    About the game, as a guy I play these female’s modules as a macho lesbian girl, lol. I also prefer to play with evil alignment characters.
    In ADWR I wanted to kill Vico on the very beginning but Valine made an awesome job making him necessary, as he was the strongest member of the guild. So having him on the travels made me get fond of him, I loved his badass comments about everything, his ideology and dark past, so even don’t wanting romance him I wanted him to stay along, as a friend and interesting person.
    In Demonheart, I still don’t like Brash. I’m playing as an evil character and he didn’t grow on me yet, in my opinion he hasn’t enough charisma to cover up his actions. Maybe it’s because i don’t understand his personality yet, but he seems a wild stupid guy who rapes or kill whatever steps in his way.
    Besides Brash, I’d like to say that I found Raze very interesting, I loved his arrogance. He knows how important he is for our girl.
    For Arana I didn’t kill her because I took pity on her… and because I love red haired women lol. But after escaping Rivera’s prison she gets very annoying, all the drama about Rivera and then her Raze’s worshiping made me regret of my decision lol.
    I hope our girl meets a new ladie, or maybe that girl from scarcewell appears again? :P

    Anyways, I had a lot of fun playing the Module and want to thank you for your hard working and awesome job!

    1. Aw, I think it will be a while until she meets some more keeper ladies, but she will.

      That's interesting about Vico. As a girl, I just liked him. I've always missed a bad assassin dressed in black to romance in games, and Valine delivered.

      Thinking about this Brash business, those who didn't like him enough to have patience and inquire about him and be nice in the beginning, will never get to see the "good" side of him. So the worse you treat him and the less you think of him, the worse you will think he is. :D

    2. "A wild stupid guy who rapes or kills whatever steps in his way" is a good enough description of Brash. There is more to him than that, but to most people, it shouldn't even matter - he's more trouble than he's worth. In real life, I would hate Brash, too - he'd be a corrupt policeman! And totally uneducated and ignorant, too. But this is a game, and my characters are less picky than me. :D

  9. A corrupt policeman more dangerous than the drug dealers. :P
    I think when our demonhearted girl gets stronger and able to challenge Brash things will get interesting between them. Its clearly that Brash sees her as an inferior being, in a different way than Raze, but does.
    I want to meet up with Brash again, but this time stronger (maybe after eating some hearts?) and then stop being bossed around by him and making my decisions count. Maybe if Brash sees the girl as an equal, in terms of power anyway, the treatment to her would be different and the whole relationship could change!

    1. But he doesn't like "c.nts" who rise to power. :D J/K, I'm not supposed to say anything, but it's complicated. The treatment of her will change, but in which way, it depends. I don't know which path your character would get. If she hated him, maybe they will just have to kill each other.

    2. Killing Brash sounds sweet, but i think i rather steal his heart from Riveras and use it to toy with him. Lol.

    3. Yes I second that !
      I would love my second heroine to make Brash her puppet, or at least toy with him like that.

      This would be really cool, It would give me the possibility to re-play (after my first playthrough as a nurse/naive-like girl trying to save and understand Brash) as a "power-hungry, taking no bulsh*t" dominatrix, who "loves" Brash in a sadistic kinda way lol.

      (that sounded strange XD )

    4. Thirded. I really would like to see power exchange. I don't mean woobiefying Brash, of course. We've got enough of "but he's just misunderstood, I can fix him" in fiction and, to the latter extent, in games.

      What I mean is, that either by manipulation (pretending to be like Sansa Stark in behavior), or by domination (with the help of either his heart, other magical means, or sheer will) we could switch D/s dynamic going between them.

  10. Hmmm guess I'm a little different than most... I loved Brash. I truly can't wait to see where the relationship goes, if it goes. I found that my character was always trying to get underneath that nasty exterior. I don't know if there's anything under there or not but I felt my character got glimpses of something more than what he seemed. Plus his comments were just fun!

    1. I second this.

      Brash gives out an oppotunity to roleplay a girl that is so much fun! She can be attracted to him as Brash is from a "big town" and goes around with a "bad boy" vibe - yet still be afraid of him because of all the rumors and him simply being an ass :P

      Love it and love him :)